Qiological Community

Clinic is Hard # 122

New patient today.
39 year old woman.
Main complaint: Neck Pain
very complex medical history including Multiple Sclerosis

with . . .

aversion to humid weather
worsening of symptoms with humid weather
excess sweating
excessive eye tearing
strong sweet tooth
extensive dental cavities

you would have thought a LI+ treatment would have yielded some significant response.

nothing. no response. no settling

she has no excessive fleshiness characteristic of Spleen excess
but so many signs of damp on the inside (not to mention the lesions of multiple sclerosis and an ovarian cyst) and on the outside, I was so sure LI+ would have been a slam dunk.
no response.

so, to my great disappointment, after five minutes, I took the needles out (even tried to amp up the LI+ by going bilateral) and went with UB+

she had a very warm and soft substernal area
a very red tongue with red tip
is becoming a counselling psychologist because she loves to help people (feels she can empathise very well due to her own life of trauma)

mild response on the table
nothing remarkable

clinic is hard.

I would have done the same treatment. Thanks for sharing.
Clinic is indeed hard.
Last week I treated someone who had intense self-hatred/lack of self love. KI was a bit of a risk but thought I would try it. She had a massive response - crying, remembering being 4 years old and stuck in a corner, hiding, terrified. I pulled the needles. But it “blew the lid off” for her and she started to release some old anger over the week. Says the self-hatred is 50% gone, so that is indeed something. Today I decided to play it safer and went for her being so hard on herself and did a LIV+. She melted into the table and left glowing.
Clinic is sometimes a crap shoot.

Hi Marleen

wow - very intense case you shared.

you know, I’m not so sure about the ‘crap shoot’ take . . . . it seems that way but for now, I’m leaning much more towards it being more often than not deeper case aspects I am just not yet able to see clearly . . . .

Clinic is hard and sometimes I wonder why I put so much effort into a system that has so much risk involved. Things can really go wrong and this can cause a lot of anxiety. I ask myself why I stick with it. I guess we all know the answer, because when it is right it is really right…
Using this system takes a lot of work on self, on being able to let go when it doesn’t go right and keep on trying and probing deeper. It requires a constant check to those voices of doubt that want to pull us down when what should have worked didn’t…
I can see why it is a system used by the munks. It requires a quiet mind, keen observation, and a leap of faith.

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I would not say clinic is a crap shoot. I think sometimes patients process the treatment in unexpected ways. And sometimes we are not wrong with our treatment, but not quite right either. The beauty of Saam is that it gives us feedback on our choice of points. And then we have to figure out what that feedback means.

I know I put in the time because I want my treatments to be effective. That being said, there are times when people seem pretty much in balance, and I will not use Saam because nothing is so out of balance that I want to bring the firepower of Saam in for that treatment.

But for people that really need the push in a different direction, there is nothing like Saam. And you’re right @Adina_Kletzel it requires a lot of attention on our part and a quiet mind. But the benefits to our patients I think is worth is. and we do become more skilled in time as we gather experience.

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this is helpful to hear, @michaelmax. I am still learning when to apply the Saam power and when to just… do the “normal treatment”

Oh that’s an interesting perspective . . . I’d never thought of that . . . . that one might make that distinction - cases only in need of ‘harmonisation’ and not the directional push of Sa’Am, . . .

I think it’s important to know when a particular modality or tool isn’t appropriate to use.

What you wrote so resonated with me! Now every time when a patient report back some negative complaint on their next treatment, I wonder if I did something wrong to provoke that. In fact, that happened to me today and I wanted to ask the forum about it. I have a 38 y.o patient undergoing chemo for TN breast cancer. Chemo has been extremely hard for her and the sa’am system helped so much in reducing the side effects. This last time, she cancelled a couple of appointments and I learned that after the last treatment, she ended up in ER. When I last saw and treated her, she just had reconstructive breast surgery and restarted her chemo. During chemo she gets bad migraines, fatigue and trouble sleeping. I treated P+. Symptoms supporting that decision are that she gets very angry easily after starting chemo and her posture is a bit hunched over. Few days after her last visit with me, she ended up in ER because the whole R side of her body and face went numb, to the point that she had trouble speaking. All the workup was negative. The doctors couldn’t figure out the cause. The numbness went away slowly and she is almost back to normal. But right after the ER episode, she was back in the hospital for 2 weeks because she got an infection at the surgery site. Her wound is not healing and doctors don’t know why. So, as usual now that I am doing Sa’am, I wonder if it is my treatment that caused the problem.

I feel you on this: “Clinic is hard and sometimes I wonder why I put so much effort into a system that has so much risk involved.”

A hunched concave posture would support P excess, not GB excess.

Without more information it is hard to know exactly what happened with your patient @mariayung. I would want to rule out mistreatment. Reviewing your notes about P excess, does she fit the picture? There are a number of threads on this forum about anger and the P/GB pair with a number of “angry” patients being benefited by GB+ or treatments besides P+. Anger has to fit the impulsive, easily outwardly expressed qualities of GB excess for P+ to be indicated. “Anger” without that outward movement could be the result of other channel excesses.

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Thanks Kristin. But would a miss treatment of GB/P pair cause numbness? I don’t see the connection but maybe I am missing it. When I mistreated before, the symptoms that arose made sense and it was easy to see what went wrong.

I confirm if the treatment is right by noting increase tension in the channels. So when I do a GB/P pair, I first check then tension on GB21, then I recheck it after needling. If tension reduces, then I think I am on the right track. Does that seem right to you?

What happens to the surface when the system has been pushed too far down and in? Numbness and poor wound healing could certainly occur when circulation of resources to the surface has been compromised.
I’m not saying for sure that you mistreated. I am just suggesting that you be very curious about what happened.

Before Saam my practice used improvement of palpatory referents as a guide. Naturally, I wanted to use that method with Saam. A correlation between improvement of sore/tense points and real after treatment symptom improvement happened only half the time, at best. I abandoned this technique and am working on recognizing the methods of evaluation on the table suggested by the tradition- settling and complexion change. If a patient has the symptom or can reproduce the symptom on the table, then that is included as a guide as well, but not palpatory changes.


Thank you so much for your reply. I find looking for complexion change very challenging. Sometimes it is totally apparent, and they get glow. It is beautiful and I know I got it right. But there are times, when there is a change, I can’t tell if it is a good or bad change. For example, I notice that the patient may get more redness. But I have thought that it was a good change as they are getting more color, rosier. But now, I wonder if that is a bad sign. When it is subtle, then I start questioning the treatment or myself. Sometimes, I wonder if I am fooling myself into seeing a change. Other times, I can’t tell at all.

With whether the patient settled or not, it is also sometimes very challenging to tell. There are patients that as long as they are lying down, they start to settle. For the cancer patient I mentioned, she settled and color looked good I thought. But she could be one of those that is so tired, that no matter what, they will relax. When I check in on them, they tell me they are settled and relax. It can be also hard to tell. But now in considering that patient, I think the treatment may have contributed to the problem as in another instance, I noticed that doing P+ when they needed GB+ will cause poor healing wounds.

There are those time when I can’t detect both whether they changed in complexion or settling. I pull needles, then I do another set. Still the same thing. Can’t tell. What should I do then?

Unfortunately, I learn so much when I get it wrong, but I rather not. It is just plain awful! I love Sa’am but it makes me very nervous. It is so powerful and so tempting to use but scary…